Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help)

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Thanatos-Zero
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Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help)

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:47 am

Greetings everyone and a friendly hello from the german seiken densetsu boards. :)

While I would love to write a entirely new entry post, I am tired and methinks this is currently better for me.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.p ... 920.0.html
I recently joined RedScorpion's latest project to help him make it a reality. The retranslation of Secret of Mana, which is known as Seiken Densetsu 2 in its original form.

As many of you know, the translator of the time Ted Woolsey, who was tasked with its translation back then, had a very unreasonable deadline to met. Namely one month of time. As a result the translation was not only rushed, but also needed to be cut down, because the data banks were not made for roman letters. In addition as the data banks couldn't be extented in time, Ted had no time to double check his translations as well as he needed to improvise alot when he himself didn't understood the meaning of certain sentences.

The german version didn't fare much better in comparison, as Claude E. Moyse faced the same problems. Also he was told by Square to
make it funny. While it worked for us german kids, we are now grown ups and cannot find the same sort of joy reading the lines.

We intent to change that, thanks to FuSoYa's VWF and Moppy's Editor. First of all, while we intend to retranslate the game in both
english and german, we also plan to expand the game with the cut material and come closer to the original intent of the creators, back
when the project started as a SNES-CD game.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3556

While we searched for the cut material, we found out to our suprise, that Chrono Trigger is the result of the unused ideas and concepts
of the original SNES-CD game.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950181-c ... r/65153017
http://thefbe.com/chrono-trigger-and-se ... e-project/
http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features ... ubox.shtml

While we cannot insert all of Chrono Trigger into it as well, we might just take the ideas and make them more fitting for Seiken
Densetsu 2.

However while we of the german Seiken Densetsu community would like to go out as soon as possible, we still need a translator,
who can help us to come as close as possible to the original, and even more to the original SNES-CD content.

Our wish is to expand on a properly retranslated original, because it feels right that way.

Here also the text dump of Seiken Densetsu 2 and Woolsey's translation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dNg220/pub
All what we can do is to utilise anything Mana related into the project and thus built up step by step a game which touches on the other Seiken Densetsu Games, however the Masked Magician Belgar from SD3 might not be Thanatos.
I personally have many ideas. I even have in mind to set Poto's Village on fire by the empire after Randi leaves as a banished member.
"Hmph! Vandole's right hand is a fool to let himself tricked by a minor. In any case this will be a fine warning to Pandoria and the rebel scum, if they dare to rise a hand against us."

"Master, while I approve displaying our power, we should be careful with breaking the rules."

"Kihihi... My good servant, I am well aware that we have become war criminals by the 3rd Wendell Conventions, however we left no witnesses. All what is left to do is to spread false news that we have been attacked first. A good falseflag here and there, and the masses will buy the lie as the truth! Kyahahaha!!!

As for you three, make sure you to continue to search the boy with the sword. Lord Vandole might have mercy, but I will not accept empty hands! Failure means no rations next week!
And if anyone dares to speak of our crime in public, I will make sure your families will regret it as well."

"YES SIR!"

"Master, shall we proceed with Project Pride?"

"Not yet, we have to await for his call. If we proceed now, the republic will cause us much disarray. It shouldn't take long until he has Pandoria under complete control."
Ah yes, for some reason it happens that some homepages will face problems depending what the owners did or what was going on the servers they were hosted on. Luckily it is possible to find old information using the wayback machine or using the cache option while searching with google. I got lucky.
http://archive.org/web/
https://web.archive.org/web/20131231001 ... ubox.shtml
https://web.archive.org/web/20141013042 ... me-project

Now available as a PDF file.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jp9owfrwailbn ... i.pdf?dl=0
I have now here a draft for a new scene written, which may or may not appear in the end product.

It plays after the Mana Fortress has risen (We consider to rename the Mana Fortress to the Throne of Mana).
Dyluck: "What is that?"

Thanatos: "This my precious? This is my greatest creation I planned for a long time, the Egg of Mana, a source of unlimited mana. And at the same time it is a cocoon to birth a god.
I almost had to give it up, because I thought the tribe of mana was extinct, because there was no woman left, until she came."

Thanatos reveals a nude copy of Purim

Dyluck: "Pu... Purim?!"

Thanatos: "She is Purim, but at the same time she is not."

Thanatos reveals a pool of naked Purim in a big glass container

Thanatos: "Aren't they beautiful? They all are copies of her, in other words clones. I created them by using the sample of blood I extracted from her back in the capital."

Dyluck: "You...YOU MONSTER!"

Dyluck falls on his knees

Thanatos: "Don't call me that my dear, they all serve the purpose to grant me in the end the absolute power.
I crafted from their flesh the "Egg" you saw.

Dyluck is overcome by terror

Thanatos: "The only reason, why I didn't made you mindless, is that so you can keep me company, as well as amusing me as you tremble, my precious."
samuraisnake wrote: I'd rather the Mana Fortress was not renamed the Throne of Mana. Keep names the way they are except for certain names of people: do what you will.
The Mana Fortress was built to control the world's mana if I recall correctly.

Those who control mana, also rule about it, as such the Fortress is rather a throne for the one who controls it.
Also Administrator of Mana, Controller of Mana do not sound threathening as well as the original.

The Mana Fortress, for someone who hears its name the first time, would rather believe it serves to protect Mana, myself included when I was a child.
With the Throne of Mana as its name, its purpose can be directly grasped without much explaination, as a throne is a symbol of rulership.

Those who own the throne, are the sovereign, which can decide about the fate of their people.
As such the one who owns the Throne of Mana, decides about the fate of Mana.
That is why the Moon Gods have send a elder Flammie, the Mana Biest to destroy this blasphemy.


Now here I have been starting to create a concept graphic for the Egg of Mana, which will be a boss in the game.
Image

Open the spoiler on your own risk as I provided a background entry for the Egg.
Spoiler: show
This is a original concept for the Seiken Densetsu 2 Expansion, the Egg of Mana.

Created by Thanatos using Mana tribe woman to construct this monstrosity. It is a infinite source of Mana, as well serving as a cocoon to birth a god.

However since the Mana tribe became nearly extinct for reasons not offically known, Thanatos used the Blood of Randi, a actual male member of the tribe and the blood of Purim, which has come in contact with the Sword of Mana, to create female hybrid clones out of the two using Purim as the base, which in effect recreates Mana tribe woman necessary for its creation.

Unlike in the original, Thanatos will sucessfully highjack Dyluck's body and not lose it, by the original owner committing suicide. Thanatos in Dyluck's body will enter the Egg of Mana to bring forward his ascension to godhood. In the meantime his Shadow will intercept the Protagonists and transform into the Dark Lich.

Reaching the egg will ultimatively commence the first phase of the final battle.
Thanks, but the most funny thing is, that I never played Xenogears or Xenosaga.
I only know vaguely a few things from those games though by telling and Tv tropes.
Well, the idea of the Egg could be contributed towards Saga Frontier 2 (partial the design elements from its final boss) and Berserk (man-made Behelit).
However, the idea is not new that villians use a device to become something greater, more powerful or use a cocoon to metamorph into the next stage.

Regarding Thanatos, I decided to make him and Belgar, the masked Magician to one and the same person.

The Dragon Emperor Drakonis/Tiamat was according to lore in fact the true villian of Seiken Densetsu 3, because he is the current ruling Archdemon of Mavolia and chosen one of the Thanatos, spirits resembling masks which serve the dark echoes. . Anyone touched by them becomes a Grimsly/Mavole, demons and other kind of monsters so to speak.

Depending on which main character you chose, the other two fractions are killed by the respective main antagonist for the character.
Dark Prince Strout from Lorimer, who ursurped Anise the former Archdemon (which is responsible for Mavolia and the dark echoes), was left in a severely weakened state, despite succeeding and was sealed by the Goddess of Mana.
Drakonis killed Stroud and Belgar later Anise finally to become the reigning Archdemon.
I assume, that Belgar who became corrupted by the dark arts and died by Drakonis' hand, came back as the Mavole named Thanatos.
The reason why he goes by the name has certainly to do with the fact, that the Thanatos gave Belgar the means to return to the world of the living, thus respecting them greatly as he himself still wears a mask. He however needs a body as told in the original, because his dark Lifeforce is very potent and easly destroys uncompatible hosts.

Interresting to note: Mavolians who fall in love with a human, are punished upon return to Mavolia with amnesia by the Archdemon.
It explains quite nicely why Bigieu goes by her alias Isabella the entire time in Sword of Mana.

I will join forces eventually with The Seikens, so I can create with their help a lore friendly expansion, creating stronger ties to the prequels and sequels as a result, without harming the canon.
The lore will be implemented in various ways, by books the player can read and by NPCs, for example a Ministral/Poet/Bard ala Romancing Saga.

If anything goes according my plans, the expansion will rival the extensive romhacking scene resolving about the Romancing Saga 3 hacks. And if we are daring enough, we might even include blood graphics like those from RS3.:P

Remember though, I cannot program or use ASM to do all of these by myself.
Only RedScorpion is capable of changing the ROM itself of our current team.

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Thanatos-Zero
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:51 am

Update:
Image
It isn't done yet, but I have the feeling it will be soon finished, atleast in greyscales.
Colouring however will be some of the more difficult tasks, because it always stands to question, which colours would be approciate.

Edit: Could you move this thread, to the Fan Creation Subforum?
Just realised it would fit there better.

Edit2:
Update:
Image

Edit3:
Update:
Image

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Thanatos-Zero
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:48 am

I dislike to doublepost for a new update.
I rather have someone else posting reply with feedback first, so it all appears less chaotic.

Image

Edit:
Update:
Image

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Thanatos-Zero
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:56 am

Time for a update.

Image

Edit:
Update:
Image

So... Are the forums dead?
Where are all the theorists and the lore masters?
Also if there are sourcebooks, I like to know if there are any PDF files online.

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Kassidy
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Kassidy » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:26 am

Hi TZ, I'm still running behind with things at work and trying to catch up on developments here, but I wanted to say that sprite work looks absolutely amazing. Love all the frames you've produced too for the crying face on top of the egg.

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:41 am

That text dump is amazing, thanks for posting that.
My Japanese is way rusty now, and I really don't have time for a translation project or I'd offer my help in that, because it sounds neat.

Changing the story is kind of interesting, the way you're going about it reminds me a lot of Evangelion honestly. Like Kassidy said, that sprite is shaping up to be awesome. I'll take some time to read through this a bit more soon and give some better feedback.

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Thanatos-Zero
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:16 am

Sheexy wrote: Changing the story is kind of interesting, the way you're going about it reminds me a lot of Evangelion honestly.
There is not only Evangelion in there, but a bit Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water as well.
However, I need to turn down the exposition and seriously need more ideas and story drafts which work well into the canonity of the mana series.

Also check out the thread on Romhacking.Net
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.p ... 20.40.html

Also there is a gameplay hack unrelated to the expansion project in the works.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.p ... 093.0.html

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Thanatos-Zero » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:20 am

For anyone willing to join the project, here the link to the Skype Chatroom.
https://join.skype.com/fXWUo3d

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Tyler
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Retranslation and Expansion (need help

Post by Tyler » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:10 am

I'm definitely going to keep my eye on this project. Maybe in a few months when I'm done with school I'll see if there is a way for me to contribute.

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