Dawn of Mana remake. I'm making one. And I need ideas.

Discuss the Seiken Densetsu Series here.

Moderators: Faalstar, Kefka

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:41 pm

So after finishing my first RPG (100% original except the graphics and some sound effects) I decided I wanted to make an ARPG. More specifically, I wanted to make an Mana game. More specifically, I wanted to remake Dawn of Mana as a 2D ARPG in the style of SoM and SDIII.

The problem: I could not use RPG Maker VX (which was the program I had JUST used to make my RPG) because it was not designed with ARPGs in mind. Nor were there any decent scripts which would adapt it to such a genre. There are TWO "Active Battle Style" scripts, but they are both lacking in completely different ways. One is VERY easy to use, but looks awful in practice. The other looks decent in practice, but is very complex to use and lacks "status affects" (poisoned, confused, etc.).

Option Two: Indie Game Maker. Yes, I'd have to buy a new program, but it would be worth it if it could get the job done. While it is built for creating ARPGs (and shooters and platformers) it is cumbersome to use. And because it is so new, there are no "veterans" out there in cyberland to help, because they are still scrambling to figure it out themselves.

Option Three: RPG Maker XP. Unlike it's successor, it was around along enough for someone to build a decent ARPG-mimicking script. The person who created Memories of Mana (a awesome looking fan game, unfortunately all in Portugese) created the ARPG script. But this means learning a new RPG Maker. And while it's only one generation prior to the current one, it's still different enough to be new and cumbersome for me.

So I tried to convince myself to put that idea out to pasture, but . . . today I decided I'm going through with it.

I don't know how long it will take me (at least a year, I'm guessing) but I will have a 2D Dawn of Mana adaption out there for people to play.

But I need some help.

First step. The name. I DON'T want to call it "Dawn of Mana: Remake" or "Dawn of Mana 2D" or anything. I also shouldn't call it just "Dawn of Mana" . . . so what should I call it? Something brand new like "Bloom of Mana" (lame) or "Birth of Mana" (lamer) or . . . what? I was thinking of something like "Dawn of Mana: A Tale Retold" but that's wordy and a little silly.

Anyone have any better ideas?

User avatar
LunarWisp
Iffish
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:54 pm
Location: Illinois

Post by LunarWisp » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:59 pm

I'm not a big fan of fangames, but this kind of interests me, since I'm too much of a Nintendo fanboy to buy a PlayStation 2. =/

Of course, since I've never played it, I can't be of much help. As for names, though, I could think of a few... Return of Mana, Battle of Mana, Fate of Mana, Land of Mana, Rise of Mana, Fall of Mana... Summer of Mana? I don't know. I think the "_____ of Mana" type of title would work the best, that's the point I'm trying to make.

User avatar
DeadWolf
Spikey Tiger
Posts: 1456
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:09 pm
Location: Deceased

Post by DeadWolf » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:00 pm

Keep it Seiken Densetsu 4.

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:16 pm

I was thinking of keeping the "Seiken Densetsu 4" part. Maybe call it "Dawn of Mana: Legend of the Holy Sword" or "Dawn of Mana: Seiken Densetsu 4" or "Legend of the Holy Sword: Dawn of Mana"?

User avatar
Dr. Sheexy
Site Admin
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:57 am

With all the last options, you want to keep the name the original game had?

If that's the case why not go with Shinyaku Seiken Densetsu 4: Dawn of Mana

Pull off a Sword of Mana on the name.

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:11 am

Hm! That's interesting! Except I thought that Shinyaku meant "side story" . . . ? My Japanese isn't so good. But I thought that Sword of Mana was called "Sidestory Legend of the Holy Sword: Sword of Mana"? I'm probably totally wrong.

I've built the fancy title screen for it! (with just "Dawn of Mana" as the place holder until I settle on the real name.) Now I'm trying to wrap my head around all the things that I would want to change it to make it more "Mana."

That's where you guys come in: Help me decide what needs changing.

Here are my ideas so far:
- Keldrick to Eldrick (Keldy to Eldy) which is his actual name in the Japanese version.
- Remove the "Spirits telling it as a story" structure since that is extremely atypical of a Mana game, and just dive right into the story with (K)Eldy and Ritzia
- Make the world interconnected so that you can walk to the village from the woods it begins in and walk to the temple from the village and such. I guess this goes without saying, though. Haha!
- Make shops in the village for items and armor upgrades
- Every continent will have at least one town for Eldy to visit, with shops and all.
- Replace some of the soundtrack with Hiroki Kikuta music.
- Make Flammie usable like in SoM and SD3 via Wind Drum
- Instead of save spots being those leaf things (from the Mana Tree?) return to Goddess statues . . . except this makes no sense because Ritzia is the Goddess . . . unless . . . I'm confused, hence my other thread.
- Obviously I'm doing away with the crazy physics thing
- Weapons . . . should the seed in Eldy's hand transform into other weapons besides a whip and slingshot and sword?
- More spells from the Spirits/Fairy!
- Special charged attacks!

Do you disagree with any of these? Can you think of more to add?

User avatar
Dr. Sheexy
Site Admin
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:30 am

Gaiden is "side story", Shinyaku is like "new telling" or "new story"


As for the weapons, maybe you could make it transform into the weapons from like, Secret of Mana.
Then at the end the seed is removed to become a new tree, and the weapons all separate as well, and that's why they are called the Mana Weapons in Secret of Mana?

Stuff sounds good I'll think of more.


How about not having Watts in a tank. That job should have belonged to Professor Bomb, he's been there since the first game just like Watts but unlike Watts, Bomb has been inventing the whole time.

Maybe Watts could do forging and tempering? Would be hard to work out but it'd add a lot of depth if you take the LoM route.

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:46 am

Awesome idea about the Mana Weapons! Definately going to do that!

And I forgot, but, yes, Watts will NOT be in any tank. In fact, I might do away with that whole tank thing altogether. Watts will remain a king, but he will also be involved in helping to upgrade the Mana Weapons.

I'm not sure what I'll have Professor Bomb invent . . . any ideas?

I'm also planning on having Moogles somewhere, but I can't decide which continent best suits them.

And Chocobos! Hey! They were in FFA, okay? :P

EDIT:
Also, is the change back to Eldrick/Eldy sounding okay? Or should I keep "Keldy." I just don't understand why the localization team added a "K" . . . If any name needed changing, it's Ritzia's. :P

And I really like that title idea. It sounds professional; it sounds exactly like what S-E would call it if they made it.
Last edited by bastian on Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dr. Sheexy
Site Admin
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:51 am

I think Moogles could be around Wendel in the forests there.

The Chocobo egg was found near the lake in between Wendel and Menos/Jad area, so maybe they'd be in the desert?


As for Bomb, Stroud had to get those Golem warriors from somewhere. :D

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:54 am

Superb idea about Professor Bomb! Stroud learns of his crazy inventions and locks him up in Loremar to invent Golems! Perfect!

See, S-E? This is why you should have had Sheexy and Bastian on your team! :P

User avatar
manaman
Spikey Tiger
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm
Contact:

Post by manaman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:28 pm

I don't really have a preference for Keldy or Eldy, though I'd probably go with Keldy. As for the rest of your thoughts, I imagine you're dropping the physics more for the ease of making the game or perhaps the limitations of your program, but if that's not the case, please include them. I think if they were a little more refined in the game, they would have been perfect. I think it was a good battle system. Also, stick to the vine saves rather than statues. Better yet, just have auto save at the points where those vines showed up in the game.

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:02 pm

The title screen so far:
Image

I don't like it. I thought the map thing would look nice, but it's just so brown and boring. I need a nice green image of the Mana Tree, I think. And maybe Ritzia in front of it.

manaman is right in thinking I'm dropping the physics aspect of DoM primarily because it would be annoying to set up. I don't even know if it is possible. But also I HATED it. And I hated the 2D version in CoM as well. Personally. I think it was a sign of Ishii caring more about "new, unique" gameplay that he started becoming obsessed with and caring less about the game as a whole.

manaman, can I ask why you prefer the vines to the Goddess statues? I thought the statues would be more nostalgic.

User avatar
manaman
Spikey Tiger
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm
Contact:

Post by manaman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:45 pm

Hey,

I think your title screen looks okay. The thing that stuck out to me is the pixelation around "Shinyaku Seiken Densetsu 4: and the strange shading on "Dawn of Mana" and "a tale retold." Personally, I would suggest just using whatever you used for the "new game," "continue" and "exit" text and color it yellow. Otherwise, I kind of like the brown. It seems like it fits a 2D remake of the game.

As for the physics, like I said, I think Dawn of Mana's needed a little more polish and I agree that CoM's was pretty lacking. I don't think it translated as well to 2D especially without being able to use the whip. I think it lacked the randomness that was present in DoM and made it fun.

As for the vines verses the statues, it's a matter of continuity for one thing--the statues likely shouldn't be there in what we know of the timeline. It's also a matter of staying fairly true to the source material. It's also that the statues you're referring to are pretty specific to a game. I think it would be better to stick to the vines from DoM or come up with something original. I don't want to start thinking SD3 while I'm playing DoM. Those are just some of my thoughts. I hope they're helpful. Good luck on this project!

Peace,

manaman

User avatar
bastian
Weepy Eye
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Post by bastian » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:25 pm

Well, I've come up with four different "green" Mana Tree title screens.
They're all pretty similar, but slightly different. They get less cluttered as they go on.
Image
Image
Image
Image

I think my favorite is either the last or the second to the last.

Anyway, yeah, I agree that the shading on "a tale retold" (is that a stupid subtitle? I can't decide. I wanted an English variant of "Shinyaku") and "Dawn of Mana" is a bit extreme. When I further revise the layers, I'll cut it down.

About the statues . . . it's just that they've been in SoM/LoM/SD3/SwoM (but not CoM, right?) so I really feel like they are "Mana" and that the vines were a poor substitute. I understand the reasoning that since Ritzia becomes "a goddess of Mana" that might mean that the people had never before depicted the Goddess in statue form . . . so that's the only thing preventing me from doing it . . . I can't decide if Ritzia is THE Goddess or not. I don't think she is, because it's said that the Goddess created the world . . . but the world already exists by the time Ritzia becomes "a goddess of Mana" . . . but since you're also voicing concern at the idea, that makes me think I should go with my gut and just keep those vine things, silly as they are.

User avatar
Kimiko
Mantis Ant
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:14 pm
Location: Leiden, NL
Contact:

Post by Kimiko » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:06 am

I like the first title screen example the best. It shows Ritzia as more active in the game's plot, as opposed to her passive stance in the second and third mockups. The fourth is too bare, doesn't really fit an Action RPG.

As for goddess statues reminding one too much of SD3; that's not a bad thing to be reminded of, right? :)

Post Reply