Meridian Dance and Child

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Kassidy
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Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Kassidy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:29 pm

I'm not sure if I had noticed this before or not, TBH, but was whistling away this morning and noticed that Meridian Dance (SoM, boss theme vs Mana Beast) 55 seconds is reprised in Meridian Child's (SD3) introduction.

Thought of the day.

Meanwhile, Rising Sun is reprised is every other version of Rising Sun and never changes. Trolololol.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by nick912012 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:47 am

Haha, yeah. I noticed that too back in the day. SD3 has a couple tracks that have sections that take from Secret of Mana's soundtrack. I should probably relisten to the soundtrack and see how many I can pick out. :)

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:17 am

I'd love to eventually make note of all those kinds of things. Especially when it comes to getting Secret of Mana + figured out, that's a tough one.

But yeah, SD3 has a tooon of songs with SoM stuff in it, annoys the heck outta me since I am not good enough with music to pick out everything but at the same time amazes me.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by nick912012 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:09 pm

Here's just a couple of that I notice. Most should be pretty obvious haha.

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Where Angel's Fear to Tread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BmZrhGVldk

Secret of Mana: Fear of the Heavens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQChkLQV8_c
---

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Angel's Fear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcEtqY6BePQ

Secret of Mana: Fear of the Heavens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQChkLQV8_c
---

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Long Goodbye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wa6xVqPiHA

Secret of Mana: I Closed My Eyes and Pure Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzDs4HHh96g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8sGSKE5 ... re=related
---

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Electric Talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2g4tXY ... re=related

Secret of Mana: Into the Thick of It
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33d6EK2HykM
---

---
Kind of a stretch for this one, but I personally think the pieces sound similar.

Seiken Densetsu 3: Decision Bell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yaV-0EVdVs

Secret of Mana: A Bell is Tolling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdHRdPaDT7U
---

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Meridian Child
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0FaXFR6wbo

Secret of Mana: Meridian Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vo6hTc5on0

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: The Sacrifice Part III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xo9CgaTUi0

Secret of Mana: Meridian Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vo6hTc5on0
---

---
Seiken Densetsu 3: Breezin'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5Qp3bX ... re=related

Secret of Mana: Fear of the Heavens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQChkLQV8_c
---

---
Again, this one might be a stretch, but I think they sound pretty similar.

Seiken Densetsu 3: Nuclear Fusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhGYAj0M ... re=related

Secret of Mana: Meridian Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vo6hTc5on0
---

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:07 pm

Thank you for confirming a lot of things I thought Nick, haha.

Also, what do you think of this one?

SD3 Sacrifice Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PlgfJQ0RS4
SoM The Oracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLWc6iG-iuI

Please tell me I'm not crazy.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Zergrinch » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:54 am

Here's my two-cents on the SoM themes appropriated in SD3

1. The Secret of Mana title screen (Fear of the Heavens)
- Played in SD3 during the Intro (Where Angels Fear to Tread), any reference to the Mana Goddess (Angel's Fear), and during Faerie's ascension to Mana Goddess (Breezin').

2. The Final Battle theme (Meridian Dance)
- SD3 uses the first half of Meridian Dance in a boss battle theme (Nuclear Fusion), while the character call-to-arms music (Meridian Child) borrows from the second half. I SUPPOSE I can concede that the Final Boss Battle theme (The Sacrifice Part 3) draws its 8-note arpeggio from Meridian Dance!

3. The Dark Lich Theme (The Sorcerer) was spiritually succeeded in the final boss confrontation theme (The Sacrifice, Pt. 1) and battle theme for first form of the final bosses and the black rabite (The Sacrifice, Pt. 2)

4. The Sleeping Theme (I Closed My Eyes) and Pure Land Theme (Pure Night) was reused in the SD3 game-over theme (Long Goodbye).

5. The SD3 ending (Return to Forever) borrows from three SoM songs. At 2 minutes 34 seconds in, you hear the mountain-climbing theme (The Wind Never Ceases). At 3:52, there are arpeggios that dance around the field theme (Into the Thick of It). Finally, the 4:38 mark where the "The End" pops up, strongly echoes SoM's own "The End" music (Now Flightless Wings).

6. The SoM Ending Theme (Second Truth from the Left) is alluded to (perhaps the same instruments were used) in the first few seconds of the SD3 battle victory fanfare theme as well as the Class change/acquired mana spirit fanfare.

Bonus: The four-note melody to Disney's "A Whole New World" in Aladdin can be heard in the SoM town theme (The Color of the Summer Sky).

Bonus 2: Eleven notes from the Mana Beast Battle (Meridian Dance) can be heard in the final boss battle of Plants vs. Zombies (Dr. Zomboss).

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by nick912012 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:39 pm

@Sheexy: Yes, I agree with you on that one. Good ear on that.

@Zergrinch: Nice job on the those! And I'll argue with you to the death on Sacrifice III and Meridian Dance. :)

Meridian Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vo6hTc5on0&t=0m45s

Sacrifice III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xo9CgaTUi0&t=0m25s


That rhythmic pattern's pretty unique and both songs have that. There's a couple of sections that also sound similar.

2:39 of S3 and 1:35 of MD.

Of course, the beginning of Sacrifice III sounds familiar.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Zergrinch » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:44 am

Sorry mate, the rhythms are completely different.

The passages you highlighted in Meridian Dance have this irregular beat (the underlines indicate notes). These are sixteenth notes - played very fast cuz there's sixteen per measure.

01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15-16

01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15-16

This is 7 notes, 2 rests, 4 notes (1 syncopated), 2 rests, 4 notes, 6 notes. The only thing you see in common are the 2 rests in between.

Compared to this, Sacrifice Part 3 is highly regular:

01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15-16

01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-13-14-15-16

It has 3 notes, 3 rests, 3 notes, 3 rests, and 1 rest signifying the end of the measure.

So while the rhythmic pattern on both songs might be unique, they are not the same. Don't argue Sacrifice Part 3 with someone who has been crazy enough to sequence the whole song to MIDI back in the day =O

Just because a song has similar rhythm with another doesn't mean it was inspired from it. Take, for example, the United States and Soviet Union national anthem. Did you know you can sing the Star-Spangled Banner to the tune of Patrioticheskaya Pesnya.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by nick912012 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Haha, I'm still going to argue, respectfully of course. Mad props to you on the explanation, and you are right that the rhythms aren't exactly the same. Considering Kikuta borrowed heavily from Secret of Mana for several tracks in this game, I don't see why it's illogical to think that he would throw hints of Meridian Dance in Sacrifice Part 3.

We have both agreed upon that the introduction to both songs are pretty much the same. You could write this off as a coincidence, but I just can't believe otherwise. I might be crazy, but oh well. haha


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xo9CgaTUi0&t=0m19s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vo6hTc5on0&t=0m55s

The first five notes sound very similar. They both go off to do their own thing after that, but it's a pretty iconic part, for me at least, to Meridian Dance. In fact, I would say that section of Meridian Dance is my favorite part of video game music in general :P.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Kassidy » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:22 am

This last item I think is trying to echo Meridian Dance's melody, but in the same way that Meridian Child does at the beginning. That said, I think a lot of the similarities between these two tracks are more born from the style being the same, rather than intentional melody lifts from the previous track.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by nick912012 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:34 am

Kassidy wrote:This last item I think is trying to echo Meridian Dance's melody, but in the same way that Meridian Child does at the beginning. That said, I think a lot of the similarities between these two tracks are more born from the style being the same, rather than intentional melody lifts from the previous track.
Oh, of course. By no means I think Sacrifice 3 and Meridian Dance are strongly connected like some other tracks in the two games.I think it's undeniable that the Pure Lands and Game Over/Inn music play a heavy part in SD3's Long Goodbye. Again, it could be that I'm just crazy and my hearing's gone bad from all the years playing percussion, but I believe Sacrifice 3 and Meridian Dance have a connection. I know I thought that as a kid, and I probably can't get that thought out of my head regardless if I'm in the minority or not haha.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Zergrinch » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:38 pm

For direct melodic or rhythmic lifts, other than the introduction I see no similarity 8)

BUT, the two songs ARE spiritually connected. As the final boss battle themes, both songs are supposed to showcase a situation where our heroes face overwhelming odds. Yet, there's a sliver of hope that remains, allowing their courage to ultimately prevail... :)

I like songs that showcase this emotion. This is particularly poignant in the second part of Delicate Affection - my favorite song in Seiken Densetsu 3.

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Re: Meridian Dance and Child

Post by Dr. Sheexy » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:41 pm

Guys, I haven't had time to go through all of this yet, but sometime soon I should be able to and I'm really looking forward to it. This is some really neat stuff.

Now who wants to analyze SoM +? :P

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