Sure, it would seem like the game industry is booming. From a purely statistical standpoint, it is. More and more games are being pushed out each year, for better or worse, and more people keep getting into video gaming as a hobby.
Yet, Where are the quality games?
I have spent the last few years looking at games, researching, reading reviews and looking at art and whatnot, and there have been ZERO games that I have been absolutely crazy over from just looking at. Furthermore, there have been no games that I have had people tell me they were crazy over.
In short, there just simply aren't games that live up to (perhaps it's only my) expectations of quality.
In the past, I used to be able to thoroughly enjoy just about any game I picked up. It was fun, and you could tell they put the emphasis on playing the game rather than how it looked, or anything else.
They pushed the limits of our systems. They did the best with what they had, and as a result the games felt much more complete, much more satisfying.
Now, though, They have really gone off on a tangent.
It seems like every new game wastes so many resources worrying about their graphics, they don't spend enough on the rest of the game, causing the entire thing to seem wonky and unbalanced. Many games have poorly thought-out controls or camera handling, leading to frustrating games instead of fun ones. Other games just have questionable stories, so much so that it detracts from the game as a whole and keeps you from being fully immersed.
Why is it the quality of games have dropped so low? Ask anyone a list of their favorite games, and I guarantee there are more 16/8-bit titles than anything else.
I know this has been ranting about before, probably to death. I just can't figure it out, and reading other threads reminded me about how much crap makes it to the shelf and sells, without any super amazing games coming out that I would just die to have.
I don't even own a new-gen console, for crying out loud!
More importantly,than why, though, is how can we fix it?
/discuss.
What happened to gaming? (sorta rant!)
*huggles his copy of Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Bioshock*Varius41 wrote:Sure, it would seem like the game industry is booming. From a purely statistical standpoint, it is. More and more games are being pushed out each year, for better or worse, and more people keep getting into video gaming as a hobby.
Yet, Where are the quality games?
I have spent the last few years looking at games, researching, reading reviews and looking at art and whatnot, and there have been ZERO games that I have been absolutely crazy over from just looking at. Furthermore, there have been no games that I have had people tell me they were crazy over.
In short, there just simply aren't games that live up to (perhaps it's only my) expectations of quality.
In the past, I used to be able to thoroughly enjoy just about any game I picked up. It was fun, and you could tell they put the emphasis on playing the game rather than how it looked, or anything else.
They pushed the limits of our systems. They did the best with what they had, and as a result the games felt much more complete, much more satisfying.
Now, though, They have really gone off on a tangent.
It seems like every new game wastes so many resources worrying about their graphics, they don't spend enough on the rest of the game, causing the entire thing to seem wonky and unbalanced. Many games have poorly thought-out controls or camera handling, leading to frustrating games instead of fun ones. Other games just have questionable stories, so much so that it detracts from the game as a whole and keeps you from being fully immersed.
Why is it the quality of games have dropped so low? Ask anyone a list of their favorite games, and I guarantee there are more 16/8-bit titles than anything else.
I know this has been ranting about before, probably to death. I just can't figure it out, and reading other threads reminded me about how much crap makes it to the shelf and sells, without any super amazing games coming out that I would just die to have.
I don't even own a new-gen console, for crying out loud!
More importantly,than why, though, is how can we fix it?
/discuss.
He didn't mean it poor things. <.<;;
I'm mostly fine with how the gaming industry is turning out. I play almost exclusively RPGs and FPS/TPS games and most of them on current generation consoles are a blast, I think. I'm also not a particularly nostalgic type so I'm not constantly burying myself in past games except to replay few classics every year.
So that's like, 3 games in almost a decade that have been worth buying :p
I might be exaggerating a bit with the time-frame but the point is there. It's pretty much to the point that I play World of Warcraft simply because there's nothing else I want to.
On the upside, "The Old Republic" looks promising, and when it comes out I will probably switch full time to it.
I think part of the problem I see with games is self-fulfilling. There have been so few good games recently that I expect crap from all of them, so when a game does come along that's half decent I can't enjoy it because all I see in it are the flaws.
I am also becoming more and more cynical as I become more and more analytical about game architecture and the like.
I might be exaggerating a bit with the time-frame but the point is there. It's pretty much to the point that I play World of Warcraft simply because there's nothing else I want to.
On the upside, "The Old Republic" looks promising, and when it comes out I will probably switch full time to it.
I think part of the problem I see with games is self-fulfilling. There have been so few good games recently that I expect crap from all of them, so when a game does come along that's half decent I can't enjoy it because all I see in it are the flaws.
I am also becoming more and more cynical as I become more and more analytical about game architecture and the like.
You have to remember that game developers are in fact a business and could care less about how good the game is. If it's cheep and sells well is what most companies are looking for. Of course not all developers are like that. Capcom's Mega Man 9 and Konami's Contra 4 were made for the gamers and not for a quick buck. Nintendo is always finding new ways to bring back classics and the new games seem to be a hit.Varius41 wrote:Sure, it would seem like the game industry is booming. From a purely statistical standpoint, it is. More and more games are being pushed out each year, for better or worse, and more people keep getting into video gaming as a hobby.
Yet, Where are the quality games?
Quality vs Quantity has always been a battle and not just in video games.Varius41 wrote:I have spent the last few years looking at games, researching, reading reviews and looking at art and whatnot, and there have been ZERO games that I have been absolutely crazy over from just looking at. Furthermore, there have been no games that I have had people tell me they were crazy over.
In short, there just simply aren't games that live up to (perhaps it's only my) expectations of quality.
I picked up Deadly Towers, Blaster Master, and Jurassic Park. I didn't enjoy them.Varius41 wrote:In the past, I used to be able to thoroughly enjoy just about any game I picked up. It was fun, and you could tell they put the emphasis on playing the game rather than how it looked, or anything else.
They pushed the limits of our systems. They did the best with what they had, and as a result the games felt much more complete, much more satisfying.
I haven't noticedVarius41 wrote:Now, though, They have really gone off on a tangent.
That's why we need more 2d games and why the DS is doing so well. I thought the Wii having graphics not as good as its competition was a good thing but they had to have the movement controls leading developers to make games based on **** up controls.Varius41 wrote:It seems like every new game wastes so many resources worrying about their graphics, they don't spend enough on the rest of the game, causing the entire thing to seem wonky and unbalanced. Many games have poorly thought-out controls or camera handling, leading to frustrating games instead of fun ones. Other games just have questionable stories, so much so that it detracts from the game as a whole and keeps you from being fully immersed.
I think it depends on who you ask. Anyone 17 and up would say 16/8-bit because of nostalgia.Varius41 wrote:Why is it the quality of games have dropped so low? Ask anyone a list of their favorite games, and I guarantee there are more 16/8-bit titles than anything else.
Never end an OP with that.Varius41 wrote:/discuss.
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Dr. Sheexy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3870
- Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:49 pm
- Location: Texas
Shawn we can't fix it because we both know you and I are too lazy for that.Varius41 wrote:More importantly,than why, though, is how can we fix it?
We just have to hold onto hope.
Hope.
I was actually really surprised when I played Mario Galaxy the other day. It did so much right. The levels were short enough for anyone to grab and be able to play through, and the bosses were easy enough that anyone could beat them, but it was so much fun the way they pulled things off. And you can go back and explore around forever or do time trials and stuff which are pretty tricky.
I dunno what I'm saying here besides I was surprised and it's the best game I've seen released in ages.
I would almost go out and buy a Wii just for that game and Smash Bros.
I haven't found any games I've thought were worth buying in so many years. I mean if I really count the games it's just a Pokemon game, the Mana games and maybe one or two other random ones that I have bought within the past three or almost four years because so little appeals to me, or holds my interest.
I really wanted to buy Fallout 3 for a while, I played it on a friend's X-Box a bit but I just eventually ran out of steam, it didn't feel as deep as Oblivion did and can't hold my attention.
Not for 40 bucks anyway, if it were 20 or so I might, might consider getting it, but I think that's too much.
One of my complaints with games today has to do with them being too short and easy.
Sandbox games try to address that but they run out of stuff to do.
I really don't know what it is though.
I can play old Mario games for hours on end and they are the same exact thing every time.
The badguys move the same, I move the same, it's the same thing.
Why is it so fun?
It's hard to come up with some decent material on a matter so completely subjective... But here goes.
It's been mentioned a few times before but in my belief the biggest factor turning gamers off from newer games is nostalgia for the time when they were younger.
Single player games in particular aren't as hard, and don't last as long because you're older, smarter, and have more experience than when you were a child, when it took twenty tries to beat Vega and Bison on Street Fighter 2 because they seemed so hard at the time. As the brain matures you analyze, criticize, and pick at games whereas, when we were children I'm sure very few of us did that because we were too busy actually playing.
Replaying classic games for the Nth time isn't going to be as good as it was the first time, but you remember how you felt when you played that game. That's why it becomes dear to you and why you enjoy replaying it, at least for a while. When it comes to playing something new, the fond memories aren't there, the only thing that is there is the expectation of how that game should make you feel, and more often than not, due to the varying factors of age and a critical viewpoint the game will never reach those expectations.
Smash Brothers is a wonderful example of using nostalgia to sell something new. It is chock full of classic characters! I know the reason I was so super excited to play Smash Bros was so that I could play as Bowser and pummel Mario and Pikachu into oblivion.
But because I have played so many games already, my genre of choice now feels so stale. This is compounded by my severe intolerance to grindng, and because of that I feel I can no longer play the games I love properly. Now I would rather just get a look at the story and characters and not have to worry about actually playing the games. My gaming life really ended with the PS2, it's sad but that's how it is for me.
It's been mentioned a few times before but in my belief the biggest factor turning gamers off from newer games is nostalgia for the time when they were younger.
Single player games in particular aren't as hard, and don't last as long because you're older, smarter, and have more experience than when you were a child, when it took twenty tries to beat Vega and Bison on Street Fighter 2 because they seemed so hard at the time. As the brain matures you analyze, criticize, and pick at games whereas, when we were children I'm sure very few of us did that because we were too busy actually playing.
Replaying classic games for the Nth time isn't going to be as good as it was the first time, but you remember how you felt when you played that game. That's why it becomes dear to you and why you enjoy replaying it, at least for a while. When it comes to playing something new, the fond memories aren't there, the only thing that is there is the expectation of how that game should make you feel, and more often than not, due to the varying factors of age and a critical viewpoint the game will never reach those expectations.
Smash Brothers is a wonderful example of using nostalgia to sell something new. It is chock full of classic characters! I know the reason I was so super excited to play Smash Bros was so that I could play as Bowser and pummel Mario and Pikachu into oblivion.
But because I have played so many games already, my genre of choice now feels so stale. This is compounded by my severe intolerance to grindng, and because of that I feel I can no longer play the games I love properly. Now I would rather just get a look at the story and characters and not have to worry about actually playing the games. My gaming life really ended with the PS2, it's sad but that's how it is for me.
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Magus_Melchior
- Grave Bat
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 11:19 pm
- Location: Indoors
My half-cent's worth...
Like any other industry, gaming has its tradeoffs. A game may have gorgeous visuals, but absolutely horrid controls. A game may be a joy to play, but ruined by a hamfisted story written by the equivalent of a team of monkeys with typewriters. In order to provide a great experience and be profitable at the same time, a publisher is forced to either jack up the price point (which means no one's going to buy it, especially after Kutaragi's lame "it's premium!!" argument for the PS3 when it first came out), delay "until it's finished" (Blizzard's perennial mantra), or sacrifice the game's quality (see: EA).
Nowadays, with everyone under the sun pushing the CG envelope and symphonic soundtracks, not to mention having to avoid even resembling last generation's blockbuster, gaming has become the motion picture industry. And like most big-ticket movies today, if you're looking for something that works in every category and is original, you're asking a publishing company to risk bankrupting themselves. It ain't gonna happen.
Like any other industry, gaming has its tradeoffs. A game may have gorgeous visuals, but absolutely horrid controls. A game may be a joy to play, but ruined by a hamfisted story written by the equivalent of a team of monkeys with typewriters. In order to provide a great experience and be profitable at the same time, a publisher is forced to either jack up the price point (which means no one's going to buy it, especially after Kutaragi's lame "it's premium!!" argument for the PS3 when it first came out), delay "until it's finished" (Blizzard's perennial mantra), or sacrifice the game's quality (see: EA).
Nowadays, with everyone under the sun pushing the CG envelope and symphonic soundtracks, not to mention having to avoid even resembling last generation's blockbuster, gaming has become the motion picture industry. And like most big-ticket movies today, if you're looking for something that works in every category and is original, you're asking a publishing company to risk bankrupting themselves. It ain't gonna happen.
Agree. Aside from the handful of +25 aged users on here we've all been gaming around the same time probably. I like the older games I used to play, but I thoroughly enjoy what games are coming out now. Sometimes I swear its more of a popular thing to just hate on newer games becaue they are flashier. Granted it may be true for some, but it's bullcrap to say that all games now a days lack substance and variety or that newer games are too easy.Kimiko wrote:Meh. I think there are plenty of great games. It's just the grumpy old gamers who don't appreciate them.
Well,
I completely agree with Sheexy on Super Mario Galaxy. As a housewarming gift to ourselves, Mrs manaman and I finally took the plunge and purchased a Wii. We have not regretted it at all. We have Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii and Super Mario Galaxy. We spent two whole blissful days so far exploring those games. Super Mario Galaxy is a true joy that has tons of nostalgia factor but also does new and exciting things with gorgeous graphics (in my opinion, better than that which I've seen on the HD consoles, though we do have a standard definition TV) that honestly--and I do mean this--makes me stop and stare and explore in place. We spent five to ten minutes just looking at the water in the Honey Bee Galaxy! We literally splashed around in it and went into first person mode just to marvel at it. I haven't had that feeling in a video game in a long, long time. Since Secret of Mana, perhaps! Well, Ocarina of Time and Banjo-Kazooie, too.
Both Mrs manaman and I have really enjoyed the games we've started out with and I suppose some naysayers might claim that those are the only good games out on the Wii, but I would point to my now depressingly large ('cause it'll take some cash to complete) list of games to purchase. I see Twilight Princess, Lost Winds, Wario Land Shake It!, Rune Factory Frontier, Klonoa, NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, A Boy and His Blob and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King to name just a few on there!
I think the most important thing to me is that a company takes seriously what it does, does one thing and does one thing well. [subjective statement]With the current economy in the USA slowing down, I believe we're finding out that there is a real value to work done with a focus and work done that doesn't have too many cooks in the kitchen, so to speak.[/subjective statement] I think Nintendo is doing a fantastic job in the regard and I only with SEGA were still with us as a console manufacturer and not just trying to make ends meet with shoddy ports and poor new concepts with classic mascots.
And, to finish my small change's worth of thoughts, I think Kimiko, with her cute avatar and all, has got it down. Things aren't that bad. And if we're interested in making things better, let's make sure we support the companies that are dedicating themselves to what we love and let's take those risk purchases. Don't hang on IGN all the time. Remember, the reviewers are gamers with likes and dislikes just like us. Don't put too much stock in their opinion. Experiment and ultimately spend money on the games that appeal to you.
Peace,
manaman
I completely agree with Sheexy on Super Mario Galaxy. As a housewarming gift to ourselves, Mrs manaman and I finally took the plunge and purchased a Wii. We have not regretted it at all. We have Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii and Super Mario Galaxy. We spent two whole blissful days so far exploring those games. Super Mario Galaxy is a true joy that has tons of nostalgia factor but also does new and exciting things with gorgeous graphics (in my opinion, better than that which I've seen on the HD consoles, though we do have a standard definition TV) that honestly--and I do mean this--makes me stop and stare and explore in place. We spent five to ten minutes just looking at the water in the Honey Bee Galaxy! We literally splashed around in it and went into first person mode just to marvel at it. I haven't had that feeling in a video game in a long, long time. Since Secret of Mana, perhaps! Well, Ocarina of Time and Banjo-Kazooie, too.
Both Mrs manaman and I have really enjoyed the games we've started out with and I suppose some naysayers might claim that those are the only good games out on the Wii, but I would point to my now depressingly large ('cause it'll take some cash to complete) list of games to purchase. I see Twilight Princess, Lost Winds, Wario Land Shake It!, Rune Factory Frontier, Klonoa, NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, A Boy and His Blob and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King to name just a few on there!
I think the most important thing to me is that a company takes seriously what it does, does one thing and does one thing well. [subjective statement]With the current economy in the USA slowing down, I believe we're finding out that there is a real value to work done with a focus and work done that doesn't have too many cooks in the kitchen, so to speak.[/subjective statement] I think Nintendo is doing a fantastic job in the regard and I only with SEGA were still with us as a console manufacturer and not just trying to make ends meet with shoddy ports and poor new concepts with classic mascots.
And, to finish my small change's worth of thoughts, I think Kimiko, with her cute avatar and all, has got it down. Things aren't that bad. And if we're interested in making things better, let's make sure we support the companies that are dedicating themselves to what we love and let's take those risk purchases. Don't hang on IGN all the time. Remember, the reviewers are gamers with likes and dislikes just like us. Don't put too much stock in their opinion. Experiment and ultimately spend money on the games that appeal to you.
Peace,
manaman
This has not always been true, mind you. When the game industry first started picking up steam, there was not funding available to push out just any game, especially because the cost of making one was so much greater than it is now. Game making, in itself, was a risk from the start because it was less defined. It was much more calculated, and much more careful.DeadWolf wrote:Quality vs Quantity has always been a battle and not just in video games.
There have always been cruddy games and good games. No one person will enjoy every game, and movie games are usually aimed at a specific target audienceDeadWolf wrote:I picked up Deadly Towers, Blaster Master, and Jurassic Park. I didn't enjoy them.
The problem isn't inherent in the graphics, more, the priority the developers are putting forth. Graphics need to be another tool of creating a specific mood and theme for the story, not just another way to make the game look appealing at first glance so that people will make the mistake of buying it. It is especially dangerous because of rentals being phased out.DeadWolf wrote:That's why we need more 2d games and why the DS is doing so well. I thought the Wii having graphics not as good as its competition was a good thing but they had to have the movement controls leading developers to make games based on **** up controls.
I too thought the Wii having less emphasis on graphics would be a great thing, and it IS. At least, for me. There have been a few games I have had fun with, and specifically limiting myself to the newest console generation, Smash bros has been one of the only games I have spent time with and enjoyed.
True, it would depend on who you ask, but it's hard to consider most people under 17 "gamers".DeadWolf wrote:I think it depends on who you ask. Anyone 17 and up would say 16/8-bit because of nostalgia.
I disagree that it is purely nostalgia... This gets brought up a lot. I think it's more of a blanket excuse than anything. There are plenty of things that older games do right that can't be explained simply by nostalgia
I will agree that nostalgia can play a large part in it. I don't actually like the Jaws game anymore, but I can still have fun with it. Faxanadu wasn't an amazing game by any stretch of imagination, but I still have fun with it because I was determined as a kid to beat it.
I'd like to remind everyone to keep this as a light-hearted debate
Understand opinions are what's running this, everyone has them and they should all be respected.Also, Sheexy, Hope is fickle! If there's one thing in my life to motivate me out of laziness, it should be my biggest, and longest living hobby.